Բաց նամակ Հ. Հ.-ի Նախագահ՝ Պարոն Սերժ Սարգսյանին

29 comments

1. Homeland and government

   During the last few months a lot has been written about Armenia, good or bad governance, rule of law, corruption etc. It is high time to make a distinction between the State as  homeland which must be supported morally, politically and financially by citizens of Armenia as well as the Armenian communities of the Diaspora  and individuals who are presently playing a leading role in the Government. The uneasiness with the government  in no way justifies the ongoing attacks against the Republic of Armenia. 

2. Making Distinctions

   When an Armenian writer labels whatever is going on in Armenia Եղեռն (Genocide), then nothing he or she writes can be taken seriously. 

   Sir, are you comparing the present socioeconomic conditions in the RoA and the NKR to the Genocide?

3. Who is attacking the state?

   Dear Souren,

   I may have missed it but I did not read anyone attacking the Armenian state or Armenian statehood on this forum.  That would suggest really nefarious intentions.

   In the real world there are at present three entities attacking the Armenian state and endangering its statehood:

   1) Azeri snipers
   2) Turkey's blockade
   3) The Mafia ruling Armenia

   The Armenisn diaspora leadership loves to talk about 1 and 2 because there is nothing they can do about them and talk is cheap.  They tend not to talk about 3 because there is something they can do about it, but doing is hard.

   1. Diaspora Armenians making

      Diaspora Armenians making outlandish assertions like number 3, are the last persons to do "something" about RoA, whatever that may be.

      And there are quite a few entities endangering Armenia's statehood. One being the chattering class encouraging chaos in RoA.

      1. Basis

         Dear Avery,

         I used to have your overall attitude until I spent years interacting with the regime in the medical arena.  It is from this that my assessment of the nature of rule in Armenia arose.  It is my honest and direct assessment, which tears my heart to pieces, because I so wish it were different.

         Let's leave personal suspicion and invective aside.  Let's try to take this forward in an honest discussion.  Please tell me:  what has been the nature of your interaction with the government of Armenia?

         Thank you.

         1. Derogatory Words

            Dear Berge,

            When you use derogatory terms such as “mafia” and “regime” while referring to the legitimate, democratically-elected government of  the Republic of Armenia, you should not ask one to put “invective” aside. Do you refer to the administration/cabinet of PM Justin Trudeau as “regime”?

            “Regime” is the derogatory term used by Western neocons to refer to governments that are not subservient to them.

            And the thinking of an individual who lists a so-called mafia next to Azerbaijan and Turkey as endangering RoA’s statehood, is completely alien to my way of thinking.

            You have had a bad personal experience, and are extrapolating it to the entire country. I don’t see things the way you do.

            Allow me to give you an example of another ethnos’ way of thinking to make the point. Israel has had leaders who were or are terrorists (long list), rapists (Moshe Katsav), convicted of taking bribes (Ehud Olmert) ….Google “List of Israeli public officials convicted of crimes or misdemeanors” to see the entire list. And Israel accepted with open arms and protects various mafia types who looted Russia during the Yelstin years and took tens of billions of dollars with them to Israel.
            Yet that does not stop Jewish diaspora in their unconditional love and support of Israel. That is one of the reasons Israel is where it is today. That is how I think.
            When the RoA and the NKR are as powerful and prosperous as Israel, I’ll worry about oligarchs and mafia types.

            While the RoA and the NKR face an existential threat, everything else is secondary and tertiary. Until then, Unconditional Love and Support for the RoA and the NKR. 

            That is how I see things.

            Thank you.

            1. A Question

               Dear Avery,

               Naturally, you can question my motives, and anything else. But indulge me a moment. Assume I am honest. I have honestly assessed the elections, especially the recent referendum, and have concluded them to be stolen. Regarding the latter, I really do not think any honest and informed person can conclude that it was not.  But let's maybe not delve into that for now, and just accept that it IS my honest assessment that the government is not legitimate, at least as per the stealing of the referendum. As such, I cannot call it anything other than 'regime'.

               Secondly, as I said, I have interacted with them closely, directly, over many years, and have come to honestly assess that they are a mafia. As such, I cannot call them anything else.

               Thirdly, the harm that this extractive rule is bringing to Armenia is greater than the harm coming our way from the neighboring enemy states. This too is my honest assessment. Furthermore, it is my honest judgment that the weakening of our state and our nation, or at the very least the relative prevention of its thriving and strengthening, by this regime are placing us at great risk in the future, possibly the very near future, from these very foreign enemies.

               All the above are my honest conclusions, based on lucid analysis and direct experience, over many years.

               Now back to my question to you, which you neglected or forgot to answer:
               Please let me know: Have you had an opportunity to work with and in Armenia?  If so, in what capacity? For how long? Or are you an outside observer? I am not looking for generalities, but rather specific information. I wish to know you better.  I am happy myself to give all sorts of details, some of which have appeared in my recent writings which you have read, since you commented on them.

               Sincerely,

               Berge

            2. Regimes and Elections

               Berge,
               Even though the question is directed to Avery, allow me to answer the part about the elections and "regime". 

               "The Los Angeles Times" did a wide-ranging survey in 2012 to gauge what Americans thought about the integrity of the voting system. Just before the election, they asked a national sample of respondents about the likelihood of voter fraud if their preferred presidential candidate did not win. About 50% said fraud would have been very or somewhat likely. When asked if someone was using "dirty tricks" in the election, about 85% believed that some candidate, campaign or political group did. The Democrats faced close and bitter defeats in the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections. Following the resolution of the 2000 presidential election, about a third of the country (mostly Democrats) believed the election of George Bush was fraudulent. And this happens in the so-called beacon of democracy of the free world.

               But please tell me: how many Americans do you know who've called their government a regime and their elite "mafia"? I am talking about that 1% of the population who have more money than the other 99% of the population combined. When was the last time you read the terminology American oligarchy in a US newspaper? Never.

               Nobody likes losing, but it appears even harder for some Armenians such as yourself to accept that their side lost fair and square against the candidate who you obviously dislike.

               I consider myself an honest person, and as an observer, I can assure you that the "Yes" won at the constitutional referendum, and Serj Sargsyan was definitely the winner against Raffi. Irregularities? Of course! But definitely not close to change the outcome.

               In a country which is technically at war your attitude of "more Catholic than the Pope" is illogical and harmful, to say the least, to the homeland you profess to love.

            3. Comparisons and Question

               Dear Arthur,
               You judge me. That is not conducive to a helpful discussion. You call my "attitude" "illogical", and you doubt my integrity by using terms such as "the homeland you profess to love".  Let's try to stick to substance.

               I will not delve into the 2012 "Los Angeles Times" poll you mention, because we'd have to retrieve the study, see what was precisely asked and so on. Polled partisans are likely to say all sorts of things depending how questions are framed etc.  In any case, it is generally nonsensical to try to compare elections in the United States to those in Armenia. 

               The Gore v. Bush issue: This is often presented as a reflection on US elections. It is not. This was an extremely close election in Florida and the votes were so close that it could have gone either way. Did the Supreme Court err in its final assessment because of biases within it? Quite possibly, but even then these biases were a reflection of the tightly split left-right electorate of the country in the current era.

               Let me venture a guess about you: I don't believe that you believe that the recent referendum in Armenia was not stolen. But I also guess that you are declaring otherwise because you love our country. You are so worried about instability, or even worse leaders, that you prefer the lie to the dangers you perceive with the truth. Somewhere else you wrote: there is no 'clean' in Armenia.

               You ask that we work to encourage 100,000 per year immigration to Armenia, instead of wasting your time… But this is what I was trying to say to Avery. This is precisely what I tried to work towards in my field of expertise and with all the energy I had over many years, interacting directly with the regime. It is by going deep into the mud that I realized what we are dealing with, and that we will not get anywhere meaningful with such an intense oligarchy in such a small and resource-poor country. It is precisely to do what you ask (help reduce emigration and encourage immigration) that I now find myself engaged in political activism.  I am convinced that if we do not improve the fundamentals of governance in Armenia, neither the country nor the Diaspora have the ability to save this ship. 

               I ask you the same thing I asked Avery: Have you worked closely with the system in Armenia? For how long? In what sphere? I would very much like to know you.

               Sincerely,
               Berge
                

            4. My involvement

               Dear Berge,
               My involvement with the Armenian Fund has been and still is a most rewarding experience, both emotionally and spiritually. Is it perfect? Of course, not. Have I seen a work ethic that I might not see in the US? Of course. But the positive outweighs the negative SO MUCH, that the negative becomes irrelevant in the big picture. It is how you look at it.

               A close relative and a close friend were involved in a medical mission last year, of doctors (not only of Armenian ethnicity), who went to Armenia from California, to go to the regions and treat patients free of charge. Even though everything was well organized beforehand on the American side, the Ministry of Health, hadn't done a great job publicizing the visit. So at the beginning very few people in the regions even knew of this important visit. They'd probably done this intentionally to protect local doctors' income or business interests. And this is only one of the stories. The American doctors were dismayed by many of these things at the beginning, especially because they had taken leave from their jobs to fulfill this mission, and here they were feeling useless. But gradually loose ends were tied, things improved slowly but surely, and by the end of the trip even the American doctors were eager to come back. There will be an even bigger mission this year involving even more specialists. 

               It's a certain mentality that needs to change: not only at government level, but also at the villager level. It would be disastrous to force that change through revolution, or your type of political activism. I hope and know it will never succeed. Reviewing 25 years of Armenian independence and assessing it, with their mindset and cultural thinking, with their geographic location, with 3 million of them waking up each day thinking they can be a better president, what Armenia and Armenians need, is a democratic and patriotic semi-dictator. Serje fits that role perfectly, especially now that he has checkmated virtually all opponents. It is great that the new constitution eliminates presidential elections, which have only created political instability in the last 20 years. Unrealistic democratic ideals are the biggest enemies of small countries and nations, in this day and age. I would never sacrifice the stability and well-being of my homeland for some utopian and unrealistic democratic ideals or principles, even those which Daron Acemoglu suggests. We've seen the Arab Spring… We've seen Ukraine. And presently we're seeing the destruction and Islamization of Europe, all in the name of democratic, pseudo-humanitarian ideals. No , thank you.

               By the way, I was suggesting that there should be 100,000 individuals in total, not per year. Even those 100,000 individuals would greatly modernize the mindset of the population. And waiting until things are the way you want them to be, to accomplish this, is simply ridiculous. Once again, without trying to insult you or judge you. your type of political activism hand in hand with that of Jiro, Raffi and others, is useless, self-serving and is doing more harm than good. To see the real face of Armenian Renaissance and "Nor Hayastan" supporters, I advise everyone to go on social media and see what their members write on a daily basis. Based on what they say and write, one can an "Encyclopedia of Armenian Curses", a "Modern Dictionary of Armenian Swear Words", and write a doctorate on "Best Ways to Hate the Republic of Armenia, Just Because You're not Governing it". Are those the people I want instead of the Republican Party or Dashnaktsutyun? Hell, no!

               I have also been involved in some of the projects by Ruben Vardanyan. He is exemplary on what true activism should be. He rises above all corruption and accomplishes miracles in Armenia. This is the activism that's needed, dear Berge. He will leave a legacy. 

               I sincerely hope you reassess your priorities in your political activism. 

               Regards,
               Artur
                

            5. Minister of Health

               Dear Artur,

               Thank you very much for your detailed note. Thank you also for clarifying your involvement (All-Armenian Fund). I would also like to thank you for your service through the AAF for our homeland.

               You brought up the minister of health. Let me take it from there and see where we go.

               I served for long years as the head of the Armenian Canadian Medical Association of Ontario, and later on the board of the Armenian Medical International Committee. In Toronto, for many years, I represented the ACMAO in the AAF. I also was the MC in one of the AAF fundraisers. With others, I was instrumental in getting the AMIC to sit on the AAF board. I met with the president to help arrange this. Over the years I got to learn much about how health care is governed in Armenia. Space is too tight here, but I will touch on a few salient points.

               The current minister of health of Karabagh was until recently the MOH of Armenia. He owns the lion's share of the hospitals of Yerevan. All the other hospitals in the city are owned by a few other oligarchs, relatives and party members of the president. You have the ministry of health disbursing monies to the hospitals, which make their way to the very pockets of the minister of health and the rest of the oligarchic structure. As one (true) story from the Erebouni hospital, immense hospital owned by that MOH: when the French Medical Association (UMAF) donated millions of dollars worth of equipment, to be used in the service of the people, this minister privatized it all, and kicked the UMAF out…  I can go on to no end.

               A number of the hospitals are supposedly state property. For example, the massive Massif hospital (Sourp Krikor Loussavorich) and the only decent children's hospital (Arabkir). The reality is that these are lies. Both these hospitals wholly belong to their so-called 'administrators', who happen to be party members of Sargsyan. The Massif hospital is owned (in reality) by an in-law of the president.  We have been there many times. Many times have we tried to work with them to reduce hospitalization times for patients, but to no avail, because the longer they keep the patients the more they charge. And so it goes. Our local AAF built a whole wing of this hospital, thinking this is going to the 'people'. In fact, it all went to the 'person', the in-law. His family is one of the wealthiest in Armenia. His son is ambassador to the Vatican. He just bought a villa near the Villa Borghese.

               We have/had a great medical school. Its post-Soviet dean was a vibrant young lady who, with our help, was transforming education bringing up to the highest standards. The hospital attached to the medical school was seeing a major transformation. The AGBU had funded a whole radiology wing…They fired her.  Replaced her by a figurehead, behind whom sat and had full control the brother of the same in-law mentioned above. Since then, medical education has been spiraling downwards.  

               I can go on and on and on.

               I could not take it any more. To work with these people meant smiling with them, shaking their hands, in short, propping a system that is not only preventing but destroying progress. Over 25 years, we had built a cadre of neurologists, and had the BEST neurology in the Caucasus. They're all gone, Russia, Qatar, USA, Canada…A few heroes stay behind. Total heroes. We tried to help them, but it's so hard, because they have to work in these institutions run by these people, and helping them end up propping these individuals, this system.

               Last year, when the crazed young Russian soldier massacred that family in Gyumri, I received a call to help with the neurosurgical care of the lone survivor, a little boy… but there IS NO neurosurgical care in Armenia (what there is is lethal).  They're gone, they're in Moscow and St. Petersburg. The baby was brain dead, the CT scan obvious. They did not know how to interpret the films.

               Artur, when you are part of the AAF, it means you are part of the system. Your chairman is the president. He is the head not just of the AAF, and the country, but of the above system. You cannot criticize him. You have to make it all rosy. You have to deny that the referendum was stolen. You do all these things because it is imperative to build the schools and all the other good things. But at what price?  The AAF encompasses ALL the Diaspora leadership, and through my contribution, even the medical diaspora leadership. All have to be silent to all the above.

               Forget revolution, etc. Can we at least find a way to speak up and make things right? My surgeon friends teach me that before any surgery the surgical team takes a time-out and then they start. Is it not time for a time-out to reassess what we are doing, where we are going?

               Yours,

               Berge 

            6. Dear Berge, I am sorry to hear about

               Dear Berge,

               I am sorry to hear about your experiences and they don't surprise me one little bit. And while I take your statements at face value and don't doubt your true patriotism, as with everything else, I'd like to know the other side of the story. Even in the US, supposedly the greatest democracy of the world, health insurance is a business, as shameful as it is. One thing I've learned about stories from Armenia is to listen to all sides , find out the information from different sources and only then make a conclusion about how bad/good the situation is.

               That said, I have heard many good things about ex Health Minister Mr. Paployan , and his work both in Armenia and Artsakh, from Diasporans whose opinion I trust. You tell me something completely different. Also, the female dean you're rightfully praising, Ms. Gohar Kyalyan if I'm not mistaken: Do you know of the number of articles and reports in the Armenian opposition press , at the time when she was dean, crucifying her and criticizing her every single day? Also because she is in fact the wife of an oligarch (Mr Mayrapetyan?) Had I not heard your comments praising her , she would have stuck in my mind as a totally corrupt person, that being the reason of her firing.

               What am I implying with the above? Nothing that comes out of Armenia is black and white. I rarely believe allegations anymore. If we had an opposition which specifically states what needs to be corrected exactly, an opposition which is very specific in what can be done better and present all the logical arguments and facts justifying it, only then the arguments against the government can be taken seriously. But if the opposition sadly stays exactly where it has been in the last 25 years (whether the opposition to Ter Petrosyan, Kocharian or Sargsyan), simply calling for President's resignation, or sending him to the guillotine, once because he's selling Artsakh, another time because he lost $10 million at the casino, another time because his wealth is around $6 billion…. I'm sorry but I can't take it seriously.

               Yes it is not pleasant that his son-in-law bought a villa , it is not pleasant that the PM has a house almost as big as the parliament building. But let's quit counting other people's money for a moment. The ancestors of most of the present billionaires of the most democratic Western countries were not any better. It is called the growing pains of a nation.

               I assure you I don't shy away from criticizing the President , just because I am involved in the AAF. Not once have I felt that pressure. I simply have respect towards what he represents. Whether you like him or not, he is the symbol of our independence, he is our commander in chief: Whether Levon, Robert, Serge, Sarkis or Boghos. Every symbol of our independence achieved after 7 centuries of slavery is precious to me. I try to rise above all corruption , all misdeeds  and do what needs to be done for the betterment of our homeland, so that the soldier on the border feels that his service signifies something. In addition, I really think he is a very talented politician and a ruthless chess player in politics. With neighbors such as Turkey, Azerbaijan, Russia, and Iran, we absolutely need a president like him.

               There is definitely a need for an honest dialogue, there is definitely a need to speak up, but please let it be done by people who ONLY have the betterment of the homeland in mind, and are not the tools of foreign agents who in fact want to ruin it, just because they are not in power. Unfortunately there are very very few people in the Diaspora and Armenia, who actually have the intelligence and knowledge to suggest a realistic plan of how to make things better, and not tainted with foreign interest or complete ignorance. Once again, change will come with time, with the new generation, it will come at the pace that the population's mindset allows it, If we want fast yet positive change my idea of the 100,000 influx still holds: Regardless if the president is Serge, or there are oligarchs left or not.

            7. Well said.
               My sentiments
               Well said.
               My sentiments exactly. 

            8. House Built on Sand…

               Dear Artur,

               Firstly, thank you for engaging in this discussion, and sorry for my late reply.  I have been inundated with work.

               The black-and-white argument is valid… assuming one goes so far as to seek out the truth. The whole point is to work to diminish the "black".

               Let's delve into the examples in my area that you have elaborated upon. Let's look at the black and the white of them.

               The previous MOH I was speaking of is not Babloyan, though we will come to him, but Kushkyan. He was until recently the longest serving MOH. During his service he was the owner of the lion's share of Yerevan health facilities, including the huge Erebuni Hospital, and the Nairi Hospital, in partnership with the president. Place does not allow to delve into details, but is this not, in and of itself, "black"? Kushkyan is now the MOH of Artsakh.

               The previous MOH you mention, Babloyan, is indeed one of the most constructive people in Armenia. His children's hospital is a good hospital. That's the "white".  Now, that hospital, Arabkir, on the face of it is a public institution supported by millions of dollars of government funds and humanitarian funds, including huge chunks of money from Switzerland. Officially, Babloyan is the head of the "board". But this is a lie. He is the absolute owner of the place. His son (who appears to be nowhere near as good an administrator as he is) is now taking the reins of the place. Babloyan is a party member and staunch ally of the current president and the head of healthcare in the parliament. Sargsyan has his back… and Babloyan has Sargsyan's.

               Another huge hospital, Sourp Krikor Loussavoritch, is owned by a Minassian (no relation to me…) who is the brother-in-law of the president. Sorry, Minassian, on paper, does not own this hospital. He is supposed to be the chief administrator, but has so been since the very beginning. Again, the reality is that this hospital is Minassian's cash cow. As I mentioned, his son is Armenia's ambassador to the Holy See in Rome, and found it pleasant to purchase a villa next to the pope's Villa Borghese.

               The previous dean of the medical school, Kyalyan, was the wife of an oligarch.  But, what do you know, she was "white", in that she decided to improve the place and got terribly excited with building a top medical school. She recruited Gevork Yaghjyan, well-known to our medical Diaspora as a patriot, as associate dean for education. Gevork worked tirelessly with the Diaspora, and all of us medical school professors helped him build the curriculum and there was a huge wave of development… but this was leading to dramatic improvement of the only public hospital, the medical school hospital… and crash they fired Kyalyan, replaced her temporarily by a stalwart Sargsyan-ally Drenik Toumanyan, and then by a figurehead dean, behind which they placed the brother of the above Minassian, and systematically undid all that had been built.  In neurology, my area, they have a head of department, Hovanissyan, who is not a neurologist, and with whom it is absolutely impossible to work…  but as I said, let's leave details for another time if need be.

               Black and White. For a long time, while working with these people, I had no idea.  So, I worked to the best of my abilities. But when I knew… You see every time I go and do this or that, I am this big Diaspora professor shaking hands and complimenting these people, thus justifying and propping up a system that is rotten and that is rotting my country. Few in the Diaspora know such details, because Diasporan leaders, like I was, are immersed and entangled with these people, through their work with them. It is for this reason that you can say nothing. You claim you criticize the president. Is there any evidence out there in public that you do? Likely not. You may well whisper it in his ear as so many do, but that has gotten us nowhere.

               The people of Armenia knows all the above. They know it directly and organically through their daily lives. This is reality for them, a reality that is further confirmed by aDdiaspora that behaves, mostly unknowingly, as though this is indeed how it should be. This is the saddest and most dangerous aspect for our nation:  an acceptance of "black", a pretending that it is "white". This perversion of  our millennial dream is tearing up the fabric of Armenianness, driving a depopulation of the country, and the reason why there has not been this 100,000 influx to the homeland over 25 years of independence.

               The house is built on sand, Artur.  That is not good. 

            9. More Catholic than the Pope

               Years ago during a business trip I got engaged in conversation with the driver who had picked me from the airport. He was from the Caribbean region. What he said has remained etched in my memory… that if you are good in what you do, sky is the limit in this country. Surely it is a perception but perceptions are peoples' realities and cannot be dismissed as as fantasies. I have yet to meet one driver in Armenia out of the many I had who voiced anything nearly close to it.

               The fact that is that Artur, much like me and Avery, live in U.S. Much like me, it is highly unlikely that  Artur and Avery will will pack their things and settle in Armenia. Surely Artur is not suggesting Berge stay in Canada while galvanizing others to go to Armenia. The point I make is this: those who are engaged in these debates are on the same boat and boats have no place in Armenia.

               The crux of the matter is that a mere 25 years ago Armenia belonged to the people, all of it. It does not anymore. A select group of people have privatized and monopolized the economic lifeline of the country and it appears that the general population of Armenia feels disfranchised. It so happens that the legislative body of Armenia is mostly made of members from this select group of people who surely legislate in their favor and seem to have a firm grip on the system.

               Apparently, there are two options for the people of Armenia. The more visible of these options is made evident by taking a walk on the streets of Glendale or dealing with the social services of Los Angeles. Many have opted to make this choice. They pack their things and move out of Armenia.

               The other option is best exemplified by the age-old Armenian saying: “The hand you cannot cut, you kiss and place it on your forehead” and end up playing by the same rule. It appears that the people of Armenia are just doing that but doing it grudgingly and resorting to the same grabbing mentality whenever and however they can. The medical equipment the Armenian doctors from Canada sent to Armenia for the good of the people get privatized. Why not? The reason apparently goes: do what the others who are expected to set a good example for law-abiding citizenship are doing.

               The unfolding of this self-perpetuating sad reality disturbs some, be it in Armenia or outside Armenia. But for others “it is what it is” so the people of Armenia have to deal with it lest they disturb our perception of Armenia that never was.

            10. POTUS Elections

                POTUS election results in 2000.
                Popular vote:                                                                                                        George W. Bush: 50,456,002;  Al Gore: 50,999,897.

                The office of the POTUS was openly stolen by the Republicans in 2000. Of course it was given the fig-leaf of legality, but it was stolen. The Supreme Court had no legal right to get involved in the internal voting of Florida, but they did and stopped the recount (…hanging  chads and all that). With the large number of Florida's electoral votes, Bush cruised to "victory". 

                Republican operatives headed by Baker rushed to Florida and arranged for the matter to be taken up by SCOTUS. Republican majority justices halted the recount and the rest, as they say, is history. 

                To his credit,  when the election was over, Gore told his followers who were planning massive protests to go home. He said "there is only one President of the US, and his name is Bush" (or words to that effect). 

                While in the RoA, delusional Mr. Hovannisian claims that he is the real president of the RoA. 

            11. Quick Change in Armenia

                Instead of wasting time on assessing political events in Armenia, while being thousands of miles away in Canada; instead of supporting meaningless and senseless "revolutions" by dubious personalities such as Raffi and Jiro, here is a suggestion:

                Organize and lead the emigration of 100,000 Armenians from Western countries into Armenia. No more and no less: 100,000 persons. And see where Armenia will be in a very short time. Change would happen naturally and quickly, not because of a revolution on the streets but because of a revolution in the minds of the population, exactly because of the influx.

                If you cannot do this, these sentiments, the criticisms and grand plans for what Armenia should be, are simply a waste of time. 

            12. “We will not get anywhere meaningful”, really?

                Mr. Mazmanian: I read your 2 recent posts on this article and I agree with your recommendations. Let us try and get 100,000 diasporans into Armenia.

                Let me stress again that I do not doubt for one moment Dr. Berge Minassian's patriotism and intellectual integrity. Like him, I also want the best for Armenia, not only "good governance", but the "best governance anywhere in the world". But I have to admit that it is discourse like his that had unfortunately turned me off Armenia in the 90's. Had I continued to take such discourse at face value, I would have never gone to Armenia and would have missed the wonderful feeling of living in one's ancestral homeland and participating in the effort to help Armenia reach its potential among nations. 

                I only went to Armenia in May 2002 and I remember clearly how "we" lived then. I consider the progress "we" have made since then to be "meaningful", mind you, there is still a lot to accomplish. My feeling is: We can continue to help our Hayreniq develop or we can take the risk of destroying it by bloody revolutions like in Ukraine and Syria.

            13. Root Causes

                Dear Antoine,

                Of course I did not mean that there has been no progress in anything. Of course I am talking about the factors that hinder the much greater progress that is possible, and urgently needed. I wonder whether the absence of this 100,000/year immigration is because of people like me pointing out the reversible causes of poor governance and poor economy or the the poor governance and poor economy themselves. And then, how are we to get better governance and a better economy if we don't talk about their causes. It seems you think 100,000/year are not moving to Armenia because of me and people like me. It seems therefore you would prefer me to shut up, and that if I and people like me just shut up, then someone could convince 100,000/year to move to Armenia.

                OK.

                Best,

                Berge

            14. Dear Berge

                Dear Berge:
                Poster [Artur] addressed your position about the RoA elections and related topics. 
                As to your question "asked and answered", I  wrote how I think and why. Please re-read what I wrote about Israel and the Jewish diaspora in particular. 

                Kind regards. 
                Avery. 

            15. Katsav and Olmert

                Dear Avery,

                I asked you how closely you are acquainted with the rulers of Armenia. You did not answer. Instead, you said that your answer is encompassed in your text above about Israel, diasporan Jews, Katsav the rapist and Olmert the corrupt.

                Well, Katsav and Olmert are in jail.

                While in Armenia, Suren Khatchatryan, the good friend and party member of our president remains governor of Siunik.

                Let me try to get your point straight. You purport that diasporan Jews remain silent about abuses such as Katsav's and Olmert's in Israel out of a sense of solidarity with Israel, and we should follow their example, because, as you say, we should have 'unconditional love'.

                Let me not write any more; it feels unnecessary.

                Best,

                Berge
                 

            16. Dear Berge.I am very

                Dear Berge.

                I am very familiar with Armenia.
                And though I don't know them personally, know quite a lot about current and former leaders in RoA and NKR.

                Clearly you and I see things differently.
                Jewish diaspora, unlike some Armenian diaspora members, do not stop supporting Israel because a lot of bad leaders and people  in Israel.  Armenia's bad people and leaders, such as they are,  are not even in the same league of the ordinary criminals, war criminals, terrorists, etc that founded Israel and made it what it is today. You believe in some kind of Utopian world, and I don't. I know where Armenia is situated and under what conditions it became independent.

                If people who think like you were in charge of RoA and NKR, both would be gone by now.

                When there are packs of hungry wolves all around you ready to tear you apart, you need tough Armenian gamprs guarding  your house, not cute puppies.

                And what crime are you accusing  Suren Khatchatryan of that he should be in jail? And yes, I have seen the security video of the shooting: a clear case of self defense.
                And I have heard the speech of MP Zaruhi Postanjyan in Europe falsely accusing  Pres of RoA of losing $60 million (!) in gambling – without one shred of evidence.

                Anything else?

                Kind regards.

      2. Voicing dissent

         I remain under the impression had the logic espoused by Avery been the prevailing norm, there should not have been social revolutions in Russia against the Tsar; in France against the excesses of the occupants of Versailles; in the United States against the British monarchy and so on and so forth.

         The same logic would conclude that there appears to be lurking unpatriotic and  treasonous Saudis  who dare to voice against established orders in their own countries at the cost of losing their heads in the literal sense of the word. 

         After all, these happened and appear to be brewing against the established and entrenched orders in their respective countries because they appear to lose the pulse of their own people.

         I do not know whether discontent in Armenia is at such a level or not. But I do find anything that remotely sounds unpatriotic and encouraging chaos in their very own country, Armenia, when they voice dissent and voice it strongly.

4. Garabed’s Comparison

   The comparison offered by Garabed clearly shows the disconnect.

   France never faced an existential threat from her neighbors. Even when Napoleon was vanquished, French people were not slaughtered by other European powers. Even when Nazi Germany occupied France, there was no genocide of the French people, except for minority French Jews. American colonists never faced an existential threat from their British kin– King George III.

   I am at great difficulty finding a common thread between unelected rulers of France and US at the time, and the democratically-elected government of the RoA. Democratically-elected with clear majority in several elections. And what exactly is the connection between Islamist, Wahhabist, head-chopping, retrograde, medieval kingdom founded by nomadic Bedouins and Armenians and Armenia?

5. Bravo Artur Mazmanian

   Some supplementary thoughts to ponder:

   What Armenia needs is a sociopolitical evolution and not a Western financed revolution. Rome was not built in a day. Was the Western world born this developed, this progressive or this wealthy, or did it have to travel a very long, bumpy path to get to where it is today? The Western world, including the US, took hundreds years to reach where it is today. In fact, the Western world is where it is today not due to “democracy” but due to numerous wars of plunder, grand theft, genocide and human exploitation.

   Similar to how the Vatican relentlessly pushed its version of Christianity upon “Godless” societies for many centuries, Washington has, in similar fashion, been pushing its version of a new religion known as democracy/globalism upon the political infidels of the world in recent times. We are all expected by the apostles and proselytizers of the cult of democracy and globalism to offer sacrifices to their holy doctrine because their god, the almighty dollar is omnipresent; their only chosen one, the Zionist state of Israel is omnipotent; and if we dare to displease this modern cult, its wrath shall be unleashed upon us.

   Elections in the US are basically about two groups of well-connected people competing for the empire’s control panels. There has not been “free and fair” elections in the US for generations. The system is rigged to be a two-party show. Democrats and Republicans are ultimately two sides of the same coin. Every four years the financial/corporate elite in the US decide what shirt the sheeple will wear, and the sheeple are given the “democratic” choice of picking between two colors. The US political system is like a two-ring circus managed by a ringmaster that the audience does not get to see. US presidents are ‘appointed’ to be elected by the sheeple. US presidents are tasked with being the spokesmen or salesmen for special interests running the show behind-the-scenes in the American empire. The US is run as if it is a multi-national corporation in which the American citizenry is its work force.

   A little over century ago America’s robber barons (Carnegies, Rockefellers, Morgans, Goulds, Vanderbilts, Du Ponts, Warburgs, etc.) used their immense fortunes to buy into the American political system, forever blurring the line between politics and business. These oligarchs used their powerful influence to impact the making of political legislation. The political system in the US was manipulated by America’s oligarchs to serve their businesses and to preserve their immense wealth. Although it has been in a decline in recent years, the American middle class essentially grew as a result of feeding on the crumbs that were falling off the lavish banquet tables of the nation’s super wealthy.

   The Western world has severe forms of corruption. It can be argued that Western corruption is, by far, the most egregious, albeit more nuanced and/or sophisticated. The main difference between corruption in the West and corruption in a place like Armenia is that corruption in the developed West is strictly reserved for the political/financial elite, whereas in an underdeveloped nation like Armenia all layers of society can engage in it. Moreover, Armenia is a tiny country, therefore any form of wrong doing can immediately be seen or felt by all. Through legislation, the practice of corruption in the Western world has evolved to become fully institutionalized. Therefore, in the West, institutionalized corruption is not for the common folk. Institutionalized corruption in the US, for instance, is reserved for the American empire’s elites (e.g. military industrial complex, Zionist/Jewish groups, the Pentagon, the oil industry, Federal Reserve, Wall Street, pharmaceuticals industry, etc.).

   Democracy for an adolescent nation like Armenia can prove fatal. As the events of early 2008 clearly revealed, the Armenian "electorate" is not yet politically mature enough to be given the responsibility of electing its leadership. We have seen the destruction democracy has visited upon undeveloped or underdeveloped nations throughout the world. The destructive nature of democracy on underdeveloped nations may be why some nations on Washington’s black list are being prescribed a very heavy dose of it these days. A nation like Armenia, just coming out of under a thousand years or Asiatic/Islamic/Bolshevik rule cannot have the proper national institutions or the societal mindsets with which to flirt with a dangerous and potentially destructive political process like democracy.

   1. Dictatorship

      Dear Norserount,

      Without going through the body of your message, let me just touch on your concluding statement which says you favor dictatorship. Think about it. What you're saying is that the opinions of your fellow Armenians do not count. Which means you have no respect for anyone except the strongman.

      In this context, your pseudonym seems off. I would have thought Norserount would mean that you consider yourself part of a new, free and thinking generation rather than one in subservient thralls. Otherwise what kind of "serount" are you referring to and what's "nor" about it?

      Sincerely,

      Berge

   2. I rest my case

      Wow and how a Wow!

      What a discourse! Out of this world!

      Armenia appears to be firmly in the hands of enlightened illuminati.

      With a Norserount (New Generation) itself an upcoming illuminatus, we of Heenserount (Olde Generation) have nothing to be concerned about.

      I rest my case.

6. Poster Garabed’s  incongruous comparisons

   Poster Garabed’s  incongruous comparisons of Armenia with various states continue.

   Now,  what some taxi driver from Caribbean region said about America  vs. what a taxi driver didn’t say in Yerevan is proof that Armenia is a failed  state. Sure.  If US opened up the gates, half the world, including Europe,  would move here. In 2014,  679,000 people from UK immigrated into US. 583,000 from Germany. OK?
   Again, what am I missing when posters expect Armenia to be like America, and since it is not, therefore it is a failed state.

   There are about  6 million Jewish Americans in US.
   There are also about 6 million Jews living in Israel.
   Is there a campaign I am not aware of to convince 6 million Jewish Americans to move to Israel?
   The point I am making should be obvious.

   And anyone who does not want to help Armenia, please don’t.
   But also please stop poisoning the well for everybody else with incessant negativity.

   btw: did the Caribbean taxi driver and Yerevan taxi driver compare notes about drug use in US, mass shootings, murders, broken families,  sexual exploitation of children? Rampant shootings of unarmed people by rogues cops? And the fact that a single, young  woman  in Yerevan can walk by herself from some place to anywhere else at midnight in complete safety ?
   Try doing that in any large city in US.

7. Why are my other comments not being posted?
   Why are my other comments not being posted?

Comments are closed.