Կրօնափոխ “Գաղտնի” Հայերու Ոդիսականը

11 comments

1. Dear Hamo and readers

   Dear Hamo and readers, A must reading for anyone interested in this subject is Speros Vryonis’ The Decline of Medieval Hellenism in Asia Minor from the Eleventh to the Fifteenth Centuries. In this book Vryonis shows that there was hardly a century–if not a decade–without mass conversions to Islam by Greeks and Armenians, whether forced or voluntary.

   All this at a time when the whole population of Anatolia and the rest of Turkey was but a couple of millions. Even when Constantinople fell to the Turks in the 15th century, they were but a minority in the land. No one could complete this book (Chapter 3 in particular) without concluding that no less than half of Turks today are of Greek and Armenian descent.

   Even during the Genocide, the whole population of Turkey was 11 million, which today has multiplied at least six-fold. Just those converted to Islam during the Genocide, some 250,000 Armenians, would today number 1.5 million (assuming the same rate of population increase in Turkey). Let us hope that the day will come when all Turks or Turkish citizens could openly claim their true ethnic identity regardless of religion.

   In the meantime, havens should be created among Armenians in the free world where those who wish to do so could come together and be embraced for who they are, as Armenians (regardless of their religion).

   Thank you for your timely communications.

   Sincerely,
   Abraham Terian

   1. Islamized Armenians

      My very dear and Patriotic friends,

      It is a completetely unacceptable the egocentrism that some leaders of our nation are occupied in Byzantine quarrels when 1.5 converted Armenians are still there, on our historic lands! We must find scientific, financial and social aid means to help those people and their relatives in the "Turkish Diaspora" so that our "lost ones" return to their roots.

      I also met Islamized Pontus Greeks in Germany, the remnants of massacres and genocide by Kemal Ataturk and Ismet Inonu, after the defeat of General Venizelos in 1922. Also, we continue to maintain relations with converted Assyrians, who also claim to be victims of Turkish Genocide and many of them live in Turkey, Iraq, Western Europe, and the Americas.

      We need a new movement in saving all these people while many of their converted leaders like Gul, Erdogan, Yilmaz, Ozal, Bahcheli and even the assasin of Hrant Dink had been brain washed as "Turkish nationalist extremists".

      We must act before it’s too late!

      Hamo Moskofian

   2. Thanks Hamo and Abraham

      Thank you Hamo for advocating the matter of converted Armenians, and for Apraham pointing out that today in all probabiity, I would say at least, there are 1.5 million gronapokh Armenians, not counting the ones who were islamacised before the genocide. That figure corresponds to what I  think Hrant Dink reportedly quoted.

      It is vital that the Diaspora Armenians organize outreach programs to reach out to these Armenians and establish well thought out personal relations. When the time comes these individuals undoubtedly will play a role in how future multi-ethnic Turkey will shape up. It may be fifty or one hundred years from now, but we have to be prepared.

      At present, based on available information the majority are Kurds in the eastern provinces of Turkey. Of course no one, absolutely no Armenian would contemplate moving them out of there present places. On the contrary, a strategic alliance with the Kurds should be worked out with the provision of allowing Armenians to return to the land and get reconnected with it.

2. Dear Hamo and Apraham
   Thank you so much for this very valuable information. Both of your remarks remind us that we  Armenians should FOCUS on this present issue and do our best to help OUR people who are still LIVING in the lands of our ancestors!!!! 

3. Islamized Armenians
   Dear Hamo,

   How many of Islamized Armenians will come back home? Turkish and Islamic thought is very much ingrained in their being. I am sure there will be some but the majority will say " o ..yes..my grand mother was Armenian"…  that will be the end of it.

   This very pessimistic view is gained by an old friend’s experience. California painter Kero Antoyan met his brother for the first time after the genocide in the 1960s in their village. I believe it was some place in Malatya. The whole family was Islamized. He had to wait an hour so that the men of the house could come back from the mosque.

   After the passing of his brother he tried to rekindle the "Armenianness" in his nephews. He brings them to Istanbul to the Badriarkaran…..When they see the cross, his nephews refuse to go in saying, " Biz Gavur olmayiz" — we will not become infidels….and they go back to their village. End of story… How many more are there like them?

   How can we help them other than letting nature take its course..those who come back (a minority) and those who are confortable in their Islamized skin. One more thing to consider. How will Armenians accept them. Mostly with open arms, but there is another side that reminds me the worst in us.

   During Soviet times a bunch of Hamshentzi Armenians from Turkey (Islamized Armenians for centuries) tried to emigrate to Armenia. They were refused:  "Took Turk ek, Hai chek".  Go figure out what to do.

   1. Armenian Christians or Christian Armenians

      Recently George Apelian of Anjar, Lebanon, wrote an article regarding Islamized Armenians in Syria who had organized themselves into a distinct tribe. George’s recommendation was never attempt to evangelize them into Christianity. If ever Islamized Armenians are going to come into the greater Armenian fold, they will be Armenians who are Muslims. Understandably this is contrary to our Armenian being as Hye Kristonia have always been one and the same. If we cannot do away with that notion, we should not then take an interest in Muslims who claim Armenian ancestry

   2. Sensitive and complex, Serj and Vahe

      This is a very sensitive and complex issue.

      I would indirectly confirm Serj’s remark about Armenians in Armenia. Following the repatriation the expression "Hedeviset garmir khentsor tchoughargetsink" came about. It was directed towards the Armenians who had "come home". As a student in Armenia I have witnessed people telling diasporan students, "Tourki menatsortner". These and similar attitudes played a role (amongst others) in frustrating repatriates who later left the country when they had the opportunity.The French Armenians were the first.

      Regarding islamacized Armenians I would limit my remark to the following. Armenians were not always Christians. They had their unique pagan relegion. Professing that one relegion is superior to the other opens the door to so many unresolved matters and at times are subject to bias. Secondly our attitudes partly are expressions of our weakness. If we were a strong and populous nation on our lands, I think we wouldn’t care who is Christian or Muslim or atheist. Incidentally, there are many atheists amongst us, similarly agnostics, including this writer. Are we to say that I am not an Armenian?

4. Ge neres Hamo

   Ge neres hamo hayeren darrere tchounim, paytz hayeren ge nakhendrem badaskhanel.

   Tourkya 80-90 daroua gyank ouni, hayasdan gam hayoutyoun tarer. Bedk che menk  shoud housahadink. Nouyn antse vor 1960in portsetz artyok gerevagayer vor aysor hayasdan angakh, artsakh azadakrvats bidi ellar. Togh irents hay ellale entounin yev islam mnan. Islam ellalnin aveli lav e kan krisdonya esouadz ourish gronkner.

   Our yen mer Asdvadzashounche kerkadz (BIBLE STUDY)-i katzogh tour tour AVEDARAN karozogh baronnere yev diginnere togh hajin hon yertal.

   Inchbes gronke havadkov e hay ellale havadkov e.

5. “Non-christian Armenians”

   It’s about time we stopped equating being Armenian to being a Christian. There are ample data that we had a huge segment of our people espousing Islam throughout history and continuing in some segments of the Hamshen Armenians.

   Our church has implanted in us the false belief that Christianity has been the bond of and national trait of Armenians.

   Let’s learn from the Jews: your color or origin doesn’t matter as long as your mother is a Jew (European, middle-eastern or African) implying that Judaism is not a religion or a specific people, but is a cult-cabal (from the Semite word meaning tribe) uniting people with similar interests and aspirations.

   Corollary to that should be that being an Armenian is not defined by being a Christian, alone. To our advantage we are better than the Jewish predicament because of the genetic purity of our "cabal" except that the "organization" is missing.

   1. Islamised Armenians
      Dear Dr. Roupen Dekmezian,

      Thank you for your wonderful analysis. The Arabs too believe in the ethnic purity of Al Cabile-the tribe, on which were based many of their greatest military and cultural conquests beginning from the 7th century.
       

       

      May I add that the oldest traditions–respect to the elders, hospitality, patriotism and united struggle to survive– were virtues which the Armenians cherished and prospered with over 4000 years.  I found them intact in the families of those convert Armenians, even Turkmens who had Armenian grandmothers from Elazik (Kharpert) in Germany, Holland or Belgium!

      My Greatest passion in my life is to serve the Armenian Nation,  these "lost compatriots" who are descendents of so called "pure" Christian Armenians.

      I would like to ask all the readers that wrote and are writing comments about this article, are you ready to help and co-operate in our mission to save these people?
       

      Dikran Abrahamian is doing a great job. We must unite in this sacred and important matter. We and they NEED YOUR HELP. You can contact us thru Keghart or  my email [email protected]   
       

       

      With Best Regards,

      Hamo Moskofian

      1. Pure Armenians…

         Some facts of history will show that the physical caracteristics of "PURE" nations  detoriate as centuries go by.

         Romans who dominated the known world of their time were very short in stature. Records show that the average  Roman was not taller than 5 or  5 1/2 feet. According presend day genecist the reason was a Roman law. It was forbidden to marry non-romans, thus intermarrige  with limited gene-pool caused the detoriation of the physical aspect of the Roman.

         The scrouge of Central and  Eastern Euorpe , the HUNS, the likes of Attila …they were also very short due to this marriage ban. However it did not prevent  to  rape conquered nations and leave their mark.

         It is a genetic fact that mixed genes create better physical attributes…..

         Where do we stand?  

         You draw your conclusions.

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