22 comments

1. AGBU

   It is odd that a church meeting is celebrating the decision to close an Armenian institution.  The smiles and the laughter around the table is apparently the sign of victory – associated with the closure of the Toronto AGBU and the subsequent purchase of the building by the Holy Trinity Armenian Church.  One would think that this is a sad event?  At best it seems shameful.  At worst ……

   1. To Anonymous

      You make a good point about the smiling faces around the table while taking the vote. But if you want to make a real point […..] state your name. We are at a come to Jesus moment as a community and it will require some uncomfortable conversations to keep us (AGBU, church, Tekeyan…) to get us out of this current situation. I remember the days when each served a purpose, for the greater good of the community as a whole. I wish we can get back to those days, or maybe I'm just dreaming.

      1. Church serving a business

         The church has all the amenities it needs. Such a purchase, of course with donations, will empower the priest more. They will buy AGBU for a bargain price and later rent it to Centennial College. The proceeds will not feed the poor and hungry, but coffers of Etchmiadzin. [I presume] the priest will have his cut.

         1. Church Money

            So be it. Let  our local church take some money and let the rest of the proceeds go to Etchmidzin coffers. And then let us go and do some good old church business, and get somebody go to Armenia, open an office and all year round clean up the stable. Nikol cleaned the political system, why can't we start cleaning the church system.

2. Vote yes to the purchase

   Unfortunately, I am not a member of the parish that Holy Trinity Armenian Church represents. If I were, I would vote yes to the purchace and encourage others to do so.

   On a larger scale, the edifice actually belongs to the Armenian community and it is only nominally AGBU's property.

   Be inclusive. Encourage believers and non-believers alike to use the premises. Don't exclude various budding groups who are associated with no one particular party or centre.

   Re-establish the school and limit the tuition fees to a level that working families can afford. Share the expense accross the community. A regular school will bring back the families that will enrich the centre. 

3. The Sale and the Purchase

   AGBU Centre Sale

   When the average house price in Toronto is $700,000 to $800,000, how can it be that the massive AGBU Centre plus its large parking lot are priced at $8 million?

   Holy Trinity Armenian Church's Purchase of the AGBU Centre

   I understand that the church doesn't have the funds to buy the AGBU Centre and might  launch a donation campaign to raise some of the money. A great idea. I think the kahana in charge of the church should be the first to donate to the fund …from the incredible $130,000 plus he earns annually.                                      

   Years ago, I worked for a company which was going through financial troubles. The CEO sent a letter to the employees and explained the situation. He also pointed out that if we believed in the company and in its future, we should each buy a minimum of $5,000 worth of shares in the company. It was, sort of, buying our jobs. Since the kahana will be the first beneficiary of the Centre-buying donations (they will guarantee his job), the least he can do is to donate a chunk of his exorbitant salary to the purchase of the AGBU Centre. After all, it's agreed that if the Centre is bought by Centennial College or another entity, the church's days will be numbered…and the kahana will have difficulty landing another parish which will be generous enough to cough up the $130,000 per year.

   P.S. About half the money to build the AGBU Centre was donated by Torontonians. When the Centre is sold, who pockets the sales sum? Will the BENEVOLENT UNION return the original donations to the Toronto donors?

   1. Kahana

      If the kahana did not expell the members who were critical, the church would have had more members and if kept good relations with AGBU, it would not have been this bad. I think the kahana should be replaced. He already has enough investments in Armenia, he can leave and have comfortable life there and leave us all alone.

   2. Kahana

      To assume the salary of the Kahana then to tell him how to spend the money he makes is ridiculous. Your thinking is flawed, how would you feel if I told you how to spend yours ?

      1. Issues raised re: Kahana

          

         The issues raised are the following:

         1. The exorbitant salary of the kahana at the Holy Trinity Armenian Church in Scarborough.
         2. The fact that his salary is way higher than the salaries of clergymen in other churches (two to three times higher.) While the average Toronto salary is below $60,000, the kahana earns $130,000 plus benefits. I don't know where the moneys for baptisms, weddings, and funerals go.
         3. The fact that his salary is not commensurate with his duties.
         4. The fact (perhaps hearsay) that he owns several properties/houses, including in Armenia.
         5. The fact that he is no more than a "manager" of the church and despite his university education has written no book about spiritual subjects or pertaining to Armenians. I wouldn't be surprised if his university education was funded by the congregation.
         6. The fact that he is rolling in money while one of his junior kahanas ekes a living and needs help because of his ill health.
         7. Toronto Armenians have the right to tell him how to spend his generous salary and benefits. Just as he asks his congregation to donate to repair the roof of the church, and just as he asks the community to donate money to buy the AGBU building, local Armenians have the right to ask him to donate some of his wealth to individual Armenians (the ailing kahana?), to the church or to the community.

         1. My Response

            1. You made the same point 7 times if we judge ideas based on how long they are you would have me beat.
            2.  My point is you don't know how much he actually makes; you are making assumptions based on rumors.  it's easy to believe rumors about people we dislike to justify our dislike!
            3. Without knowing what he does day to day how can you say that his salary is not reflective of the amount of work he puts in.
            4. Even in your statement said it was "hearsay" so I won't even justify your statement with an answer. 
            5. Der Zareh is not the "manager" of the church; he is more like a president, also I don't understand the need for him to be some sort of author for you to validate him as a Priest. I can name multiple authors whose ideas aren't worth the paper they are written on so that's somewhat of a low bar to set for any individual.
            6. I like the use of "Rolling in money" but neither you nor I know his financial situation.
            7. No person on earth has the right to tell him how to spend his money just as I have no right to tell you. I think your dislike for the person is clouding your judgment of what is fair and what isn't. If you want to help your fellow community member please by all means, but if he wanted to pile his money and burn it, it's his right to do so.

            Also, the post is about the AGBU and the selling of the property behind the backs of its members, I think we need to funnel some of this disdain towards Armen-Ontario.
             

         2. Kahana

            The real Armenian church is dead. These guys do opposite of what they preach. Stop sending your donations, stop attending a place where hypocrites are flocking. If you want to pray, do how Jesus asked you to pray, if you want to donate, there are thousands of places, like homeless shelter, soup kitchen etc. Don't waste your money on griddy priest who is heartless. My only nickname for him is, Rasputin.

4. Questionable Plea for $8.5 Million

   Today, like many other area Armenians, I received a bilingual (Armenian and English) email from the Holy Trinity Church of Toronto regarding its fund-raising campaign to buy the AGBU Centre of Toronto.
   1. It was an off-putting letter starting with its sequence: the English version (titled 'Show You Care') preceded the Armenian version.
   2. The text started with "Unreal but true". Why unreal? Buildings are sold and bought every day. The Centre has been a white elephant for years. As next-door neighbor the DerDer surely knew the Centre's sale was imminent. Why was he, the parish council, etc. caught by surprise–or at least that's what their current behavior indicates.
   3. Although we are about ninety days before the closing day, the letter asserted that the  Centre "will be sold on Feb. 28, 2019 to Centennial College."
   4. The email said that the sale will have "serious impact on the day to day operations of the Church." It didn't explain what the serious impact would be.
   5. The email said the sale to Centennial College will "cause irreversible damage to the Armenian character of the complex." If the church and its leaders cared in retaining the Armenian character of the complex why is that for years its relations with the Centre have been frosty?
   6. To induce people to donate, the letter said the "sale to a third party will threaten the sacrifices of your parents" and continues with similar tear-jerking sentences which border to emotional blackmail.
   7. It takes nerve for the church and its DerDer to ask for donations (the letter redundantly says "$8.5 million dollars") when the church has been a closed shop for years, with the same clique running things.
   8. It takes nerve for the church to ask for donations when its principals co-plotted to turf the capable and popular Bishop Pakrad from his position in Montreal without keeping the faithful informed about the reason(s) for shipping him back to Armenia.
   9. It takes nerve for the church and its amply-compensated DerDer to ask for donations when its Missisauga church priest (ailing) lives in pecuniary circumstances and according to what I have been told can't even afford a car.
   10. It takes nerve for the church to charge more than $600 for a cursory, quickie baptism which is officiated with bored "elan" and then demand its congregation to cough up $8.5 million for the Centre.
   11. It takes nerve for the church's DerDer to ask for money from many hard-pressed Torontonians when he earns a minimum of $130,000 a year plus unknown benefits when in Toronto Protestant pastors earn an average of $48,236 while Catholic priests earn $44,417. Why does the DerDer earn nearly three times their salary? How does the DerDer excel? Has he written a single book about theology, our Church history, or anything at all about our Church and nation? Has he demonstrated genuine spirituality? Incidentially, the average salary in Toronto is $58,756.
   12. Why doesn't very comfortable DerDer set a good example and donate a chunk of his annual salary for the purchase of the Centre? He would be demonstrating good neighborly relations and commitment to preserve the "Armenian character of the complex."
   12. Would the purchase of the Centre bring with it a salary increase for the DerDer? After all, his responsibilities will increase. Assuming that the DerDer is a busy man now, how will he find the time to get involved in the running of a huge building?
   13. How can the DerDer and his friends use emotional blackmail to make Toronto Armenians donate for the Centre's purchse when their letter doesn't even bother to mention what the church would do with the Centre. The Centre has been a white elephant for a number of years. What guarantee is there that it wouldn't continue to be so under the aegis of the extravagantly remunerated DerDer?

   1. Flawed logic

      Hi, your logic is flawed. You can't tell other people how to spend their money. First off if people are willing to donate to the church to buy the building even though the Mississauga church is "ailing" and second with how Ter Zareh spends his money.

      If you'd like to set a good example for poeple you're more than welcome to donate your money to Mississauga or whatever else youd like.

5. Sales of AGBU Toronto Center

   Below is an email that I sent both to Mrs. Salpi Derghazarian, executive director of AGBU, and Fr. Zareh of Holy Trinity Armenian church, just before the gathering at the church. Since then, I have received the following information- some from CRA (Canada Revenue Agency) which is in charge of Charitable organizations, as well as  from different sources. Due to lack of tangible information (other than worthless intangible emotions) , we have to get as close as possible to the business reality.

   1) It seems that there was a fundraising for the construction of the AGBU centre in 1982; The Armenian community raised $1Million dollars; to which Mr. Alex Manoukian contributed $1Million dollars. There was a loan from the bank, of $1M. I believe all those loans are paid. In other words, the Armenian community in Ontario has contributed 66% of the funding.

   2) To the best of my understanding from CRA,  donations coming from United States to a Canadian charitable organizations, cannot be returned.

   3) It looks like the AGBU Centre is not bleeding money. It has broken even. The net benefit being that the large hall and medium is being utilized by the community (at no charge) few times a year. Maybe 7-12 times.

   – Expenses should be around $30,000/month (incl. salary ), and revenues are almost the same. (You can go to CRA website, Charitable organizations, 2016, as well as other general sources)

   – There may be some one time investment  between $50,000-200,000 for the property. (This is the best guesstimate; if somebody has better please let them come forward)

   4) […..]

   5) […..]

   6) As time is running out on the “option” that the church may exersize, I had to share with the community these information. The consultation with the lawyers are in the  middle of next week; I will be in Ottawa. So far, the information is not been consulted by expert lawyers.

   7) I will give my observations on the Church meeting in another article. It seems that the church finances is hardly breaking even, so it is a question for me, how  is it going to raise $8.5Million in 80 days? Unless there is a deal behind the curtains, this whole “representation” seems to be a charade.

   *****

   Mrs. Salpi Derghazarian
   Executive Director

   Dear Salpi,

   Kindly advise the AGBU Board of Directors as well as that of Armen Ontario that both the contents of their public letter, as well as the Statement below should not be acceptable to the members of the Armenian community, at least not to me. I have retained a law firm to follow up with the developments, and will share its opinions with the community. I also suggest that Father Zareh  ask the committees of the church to take their time in making decisions. I understand the church has 90 days to execute its options.  This correspondence will be forwarded to different members of the community as well as the media in Armenia. There should be complete public transparency. The decision should not be in the discretion of few power centers of our community, but for the best interest of the Armenian community in Toronto.

   Key information that should be public to the community is whether 1) the Centennial’s offered price is a fair, and whether the process is transparent; 2)  It seems that in the years 1979-82,  funds were raised by Ontario Armenians for the purchase and construction of the AGBU centre; then AGBU Central ( New York ) contributed with funds also. My understanding that the ratio was 51% – 49%  to AGBU NY favour. We want to make sure that that 49% of the proceeds stays in Canada. 3) Clear plans as to where the funds will be applied? Given the significance of the transaction, AGBU’s letter does not provide clear justifications for the sales, credible specific future plans, and transparency. I believe that if the  Board of Directors could not manage the operating expenses of a modern building (930 Progress Ave.) in a thriving real estate in Toronto, then it has failed in its task. In Montreal, AGBU Quebec is maintaining a day school for 400 students with $3.6 Million budget despite of all its challenges. ( Granted that in Quebec  30% of the students fees are subsidized by the province; but to compensate that, the Armenian community in Toronto has more resources.

   If AGBU property is sold to other entities, the definitionas to “who can vote as a member” within the context of the AGBU and church, will probably be challenged in tribunals or courts.  By abandoning AGBU’s traditional role, BOD strategy has been to limit the interaction with the community. This  has dampened membership enthusiasm knowing that their opinions do not matter; and as such they have asked why would they pay $100 membership. We will question whether some in the BOD had personal agendas to insulate AGBU? Few years back, AGBU launched “AGBU Young Professionals” and it was one program which sought empowerment of the youth; however at a closer look one can see that it was used as a launching pad to promote BOD President’s daughter to later become its President, and then the “Director of fundraising” at AGBU Head office, a prestigious position which allows interacting with the most powerful Armenians in the world.  [….]

   […..]

   If the property will be sold, the community will be happy if it stays within the Armenian organizations. Already  49% of those funds which already belong to the Ontario Armenians could be used as collateral for a further financing by the bank. That is in the event there was no fundraising.

   I just returned from a business trip, and had a short time to prepare my thoughts. I haven’t had the time to fact check in details. I just wanted to share it before  today’s general meeting at the church.

   Sarkis Yacoubian

   1. Support

      I agree and support the above remarks. I keep my right to ask my donation back.
      Armen Nalbandian

6. Sale of the AGBU Centre

   I understand Armen-Ontario/AGBU is annoyed with people who while complaining about the sale of the AGBU Toronto Centre allegedly showed little interest in the operations of the Centre. I'm wondering whether this is because Armen-Ontario was a closed shop and few members knew who was who, how often the roster changed, and who decided the changes. I am wondering whether some members lost interest when the AGBU headquarters began to appoint the Centre's directors. By the way, were the directors remunerated? If they had an expense budget, how much was it?

   Another thing. The Keghart article says the community raised one-third of the Centre's construction costs. The actual figure is two-thirds with Alex Manoogian donating one-third. Of course, there's no price tag for the hours the community has dedicated to the continued functioning of the Centre. Since the community paid two-thirds of the construction cost, shouldn't it decide the future of the Centre rather than the invisible Armen-Ontario?

7. Shame!

   I am confident that the church has the funds or can generate the funds to buy the property. They are pressuring the community to donate-donate-donate yet again! When are we going to learn to invest our community finances in profit making enterprises?

    

   Stop saying that we are a not-for-profit organization; change that ideology and start being for-profit organization and enrich our community from funds collected from non-Armenians for a change.

   AGBU has become the shameful face of the Armenian history, […]. They are making Alex Manougian roll in his grave! Shame on AGBU!!

8. Sale of the Toronto AGBU center

   The problem seems to be carbon-copy of  similar Armenian institutions being  jettisoned recently almost nonchalantly, e.g. the Melkonian in Cyprus (AGBU), the Arshag Dikranian in Los Angeles (Tekeyan Cultural Assoc).
   Perhaps I missed something or some detail going fast through all of the above, but it would seem to me this financial killer crisis certainly did not occur or surface overnight. Instead, if genuine, should have been developping over at least a few years.

   I have no financial expertise and, if  I (or you) had some personal problem emerging in that area, I (or you) would have consulted a financial expert's or experts' advice. In this case that should have been the minimum requirement and in a case like the Cyprus Melkonnian, educators' (both Armenian and Greek) and Cyprus state education ministry advisors' additional input should have been doggedly pursued over months, likely years.

   The real question then is: in any of those three glaring examples, was such expertise ever solicited and obtained and if so, was it presented to all parties concerned well prior to initiating the sale processes (in this presnt instance to at least the church membership, perhaps also to the AGBU annual international meeting). This apparent emerging habit of allowing cancer to fester silently and then to put everyone in fait-accompli at the last minute is dictatorship in disguise and prescription for global Armenian disaster.

9. Incompetence all around

   I am glad that KEGHART reported on this issue and raised the awareness of its readers and among those who are interested in Armenian affairs. Indeed since the closure of the Melkonian Institute in Nicosia, Cyprus it has become "fasionable" to liquidate Armenian holdings or heritage (patrimoine in French) throughout the diaspora invoking various operational issues that point out, in the best of cricumstances, to the incompetence of those in charge and in the worst case scenario, to the intellectual and visionary bankruptcy of the Armenian diaspora leadership that is unable to rise to the challenge and find solutions to institutional, educational and organizational issues that are bedevilling Armenian diaspora communities and their existence from the Middle East to the United States.

   Otherwise how to explain the closure and consolidation of schools, sale of property that was acquired through the sacrifice and hardship of those who came before us with a mission in their life. It is unfortunate that the so-called Armenian press ignores such issues or is given to the ordinary and boring recitation of Jeremiahs as a way of confronting the bleak future without actually bringing about a change in the ossified mentality of those who still believe in their message.

   All I see in the Armenian press are photos of our clergy celebrating mass on festive occasions or anniversaries of their enthronement as if they are the hope and the future of our nation, while in fact the people who report on them have become their sole admirers.

   I am only hopeful that the new generation of rising Armenians (Armenians in their own right and in the way they see things) will finally kick these incompetent, hardly educated, and self-contended parasites out and take over the management of our communal life, to bring order, strategic planning and vision to the common future.

   It is sad that we seem to be happy to live without revolution in our lives!

   1. Sell, Sell, Sell

      In the past few years, Melkonian shuttered in Cyprus.
      An important Armenian school in Los Angeles, run the Ramgavars, was sold.
      St. Vartan Church in New York could be selling some of its real estate.
      In a few days the AGBU Centre in Toronto will disappear.
      The AGBU is also closing school(s) in Beirut.
      I don't know whether there are more church or national buildings which have been sold or are about to be.
      What does this say about the Diaspora and the AGBU?
      The Armenian Diaspora media is sleeping on the job because most of the outlets are owned by the political parties. They are not journalists. They are people on the soapbox mouthing their political parties' agenda.

   2. It would have been interesting

      It would have been interesting to hear, besides the criticism towards AGBU, what you would have done to salvage Melkonian and the other institutions.

      It's very easy to criticise, it doesn't cost a penny.
       

10. The Bottom Line

    It appears that the bottom line for ABGU is the sum total of $$$$$. 

    Intangibles that are priceless such as having a  community center for the seniors to socialize, for the young to meet; a place where the community gets together to commemorate April 24, celebrate independence, hold an after school Armenian school are falling by the wayside.

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