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11 comments
  1. “If someone spits in your

    "If someone spits in your face, there are two things that you can do.  One is to beat the person to a bloody pulp.  The other is to say “It’s raining!”
    For too long, the Armenians have been walking around with raincoats, rain-hats, umbrellas, and galoshes." – Avedis Kevorkian –

    that sums-up why Armenians are so oppressed…

  2. Wiping out treachery

    Serzh and his gang of mobsters (aka republican parliament and police force), and all the diasporan organizations who support his criminal regime (so that they can protect their own fiefdoms and fill their own pockets) are committing treason, plain and simple. This unlawfully "elected" regime must be brought down and the protocols nullified. These diasporan organizations — who claim to represent the people but do not — must be exposed. The time is now.
  3. I for one totally support Sargsyan

    I for one totally support Serge Sargsyan on the protocols issue. Immature and villifying  comments such as Haroutiun’s are so old and boring and predictable.

    I don’t think Serge Sargsyan is any less of a patriot than all of you combined. I don’t think he hates the Turks for what they have done any less than all of you combined. And their later corrupted or less democratic ways (to what extent nobody’s sure) don’t change the fact that Robert Kocharian and Serge Sargsyan were the engineers of the Artsakh liberation movement.

    Before we talk about who’s corrupt and who isn’t , show me one military/political leader from the 1988-1994 who stayed on in politics after the war and wasn’t corrupt or undemocratic. Tell me one name. Please….Going on.

    Whether the Genocide happened or not will not be a topic at the inter-governmental subcommissions. This has been said repeatedly by Sargsyan and Nalbandian. Quoting the President from his Armenian Reporter interview:

    "I would like to emphasize that this is not the historians’ commission proposed years ago. This is a subcommission of an intergovernmental commission, which was suggested by the Armenian side in its response to that proposal. The purpose of the subcommission is to generate a dialogue on history, in order to increase mutual trust.

    This is a long-term process, which encompass a broad range of issues: issues of the Armenian heritage in Turkey, issues of restoring and preserving that heritage, issues of the heirs of the victims of the Genocide. It is not possible to establish relations with a country without having dialogue about issues of mutual interest. And historical research should scare only those who falsify history. The agenda of the commission and its subcommissions will be set by the two sides, Armenia and Turkey. Those who are concerned should realize that the representatives of the government of Armenia will never allow issues to be formulated in a way that could be insulting to the Armenian people."

    I think the protocols are a very good way to either prolong the pro-Armenian status quo in Karabagh or solve with minimum the world and Azerbaijan recognizing Artsakh+Kelbajar+Lachin as independent or part of Armenia. Meanwhile the blockade imposed by Turkey would have been lifted.

    Recognizing the borders for now: Why not? Don’t forget that this way we are also protecting the present borders of Armenia from any Turkish attack or Turkish occupation. Turkish recognition of the present Armenian border is very important. This is one.

    "We are losing our ancestral lands this way"… I disagree , that’s only in our hands. One day when we are ready to retake them in any shape or form (Whether Kurdish upheaval, whether Great Powers’ will coinciding) these protocols would not be worth anything, just as the Sevres Treaty is worth nothing to Turkey today.

    Let’s look at the present choices Armenia and Diaspora have in terms of strategy:

    1. Russia will forever protect Armenia-Karabakh from Turkey and Azerbaijan, so let’s be dependent on Russia.
    2. US President will say the worrd Armenian Genocide and from then Turkey will be so pressured that it will admit the Genocide.

    This is approximately the logic. Putting all your eggs in one basket. If anyone else can think of another strategy please come forward!

    We know all too well that Russia’s interests in the region shift dramatically. It’s always been that way. And then? Who do we ask for help? Iran? the US? In that situation we would dream about these protocols about how good they are. That will be desperation, in one word.
     
    What should be the important points for us in the next few years: 

    We need the foundations of an  economically very strong and democratic Armenia+Karabakh. An Armenia which is free of oligarchic monopolies. Open borders will definitely help that.

    We need open borders and railroads on all sides (Azerbaijan can wait if it doesn’t recognize Karabakh).

    We need one pipeline going through Armenia.

    And we have to regulate our market and laws in such a way that Turkish demographic and economic expansionism affects us minimally.

    Genocide recognition should go on with even more energy and motivation.. Reasoning: While Armenia has extended its hand to Turkey to help Turkey in the difficult task of recognizing its past and establish peace in the region, the Diaspora lobby is convincing foreign powers that they should do their part in this process.

    Notice that all the points I stated above (except the third one) are totally in our hands to accomplish.

    These are for now the main issues of the viability and longevity and strength of our homeland.

    PS I find some of the apocalyptic opinions expressed here, very funny and senseless. I personally think that we are opening the second last page of our Genocide struggle with these protocols. This new page will conclude by Turkey recognizing the Genocide. And the last page will be reparations.

    I repeat, much of it depends on our intelligence and how flexible we are in using rapidly changing issues in the world to our advantage. Isolating the country and not doing anything is senseless. Serge Sargsyan has got it all right!

    PS.  Please read the 4 page interview here and tell me what you think.
     

    http://reporter.am/index.cfm?furl=/go/article/2009-10-01–all-the-countries-that-have-not-yet-recognized-the-armenian-genocide-will-do-so-sooner-or-later–an-interview-with-president-serge-sargsian&pg=1

    1. This is not the time

      1. This is not the time for " Approximate Logic ".
      2. Do not bet on Russia.

       

      1. Vahe,
        If you read carefully

        Vahe,

        If you read carefully I’m not betting on Russia. Quite the opposite I’m saying we should not bet on Russian support forever. I was just mentioning what do we have as available strategies today.

  4. Serge is Clueless

    Dear Sergio:

    Serge and his friends know as much about the Genocide as some homeless bum off the streets of New York.  

    Have any of you ever heard an intelligent word about the Genocide out of President Sargsian’s mouth, other than the word "genocide" itself?  No.  Under Serge, has Armenia ever supported the Diaspora in its genocide acknowledgment efforts?  No.  Has Serge ever critiqued those countries and leaders that have thrown doubt on the veracity of the Genocide?  No.  Never.  He has been silent.  While those countries and leaders spit on the very memory of the genocide, Serge is silent.

    Does Armenia under Serge have any policy at all regarding the Genocide, except for saying that the genocide is a fact? No.  

    So, Sergio, or whoever you are, don’t tell us how wonderful the "joint historical committee" will be.  As for your contention that it will examine issues revolving around the heirs of the genocide and their property,don’t make us laugh.

    Neither Serge nor Armenia has ever, for example, lifted so much as a finger to help the Diaspora with its lawsuits against insurance companies and banks.  Armenia has done nothing. It has expressed nothing.  The  sum total of Armenia’s moral or other assistance to the Diaspora’s efforts has been Serge’s sour, dour, miserable, Soviet-era smile. In other words, no help at all.  This is not a honest Armenian man. This is not a man that Armenians can look up to.  This is not a man who can be trusted with Armenia’s future.

    I doubt if Serge has ever read a decent book about the Genocide. People like Serge were educated with Soviet era, anti-nationalist textbooks.  I doubt that Serge has any knowledge whatsoever, except for perhaps rudimentary basics, of the history of Turkish – Armenian relations.  He is completely disarmed when it comes to such things.  He thinks Turkey has changed.

    Want an example of what a dullard Serge is?  A while back when he went to LA he gave the LA Times an interview in which, to impress the editors as to how much Armenia is with America in the war on terror, he went out of his way to say that the Karabagh conflict has a religious basis.  This is how crude he is, how absolutely out of touch he is, and how little he understands what is going on in the world. 

    If Sargsian wanted to balance relations with Russia, and establish relations with Turkey, he certainly did not need to go and negotiate protocols which could in any way throw doubt on the genocide and he did not need to have a clause inserted which makes it harder for Armenians to possibly press land claims in the future.  There is nothing whatsover in the protocols which can be termed pro-Armenian – not even one clause – whereas you can see the footprints Turkish boots all over it.

    Finally, if you notice, before the Turks closed the border in 1993, there were no such conditions about the then-open border.  Serge is a loser and must resign. He was not even elected fairly.  Are you in favor of fraudulent elections, Sergio?  No, the protocols must be scrapped. 

  5. Shame on you, Sergio

     
    "Sergio", you (and the interview conducted in the Armenian Reporter Int’l that you included in your post) sound a lot like Sargsyan administration mouthpiece Tatul Hakobyan. And even if you’re not Tatul Hakobyan, your post still has no merit.

    P.S. Tatul, aren’t you traveling on the Diaspora rock tour with Serzh right now, helping him extend the state of emergency in Armenia onto Armenians living in foreign countries? Shame on you!

  6. Ghazaros, You prove yet again

    Ghazaros,

    You prove yet again that most Armenians don’t understand what politics is. There is no shame in politics. There are no emotions in good politics. There are gains and losses and the means to reach them. BTW I’m not Tatul Hakobyan, even though I enjoy his articles.

    But I firmly believe that at this stage of the geopolitical rivalry this is the best we could get. The absolute best. Doing nothing would have been another option:in today’s world and in that region: a suicidal one.

    All the opinions expressed by you Arshavir and others are wishful thinking. That’s allowed perhaps if you have at least 50% of the means to do it. Armenia does not even have that much.

    Armenia needs peace with its neighbors and security for its existence. Today this is the best bargain we could get for that peace. The best. Procrastinating would be irresponsible today when you see where Russia is going, where
    Turkey is going and where the U.S. is coming from

    It’s all too easy to be against the protocols in the Diaspora. Your son is not serving on the borders of Gharapagh and on today’s border with Turkey. You’re not the one suffering from a blockade. I can state a 100 more reasons.

    These protocols are a postponement of our National DREAM. A postponement which is essential for today’s Armenia to prosper, to keep Gharapagh and to be stronger to maneuver.

    The name of the game is flexibility. The rest is simply shouting without reason. That has gotten us nowhere in the past.

    P.S. For a very interesting impartial article on the protocols

    The Protocols: Reality and Irrationality

    But please… read it without emotions

     

     

  7. Dear Sergio: Armenia has
    Dear Sergio:

    Armenia has nothing to bargain with?  Like Georgia, Armenia has its geographical position to bargain with.

    Without Armenia and Georgia, the United States has no way to get to Azerbaijan which is where the oil and gas are.

    And how about Karabagh?  Is that not something to bargain with?  

    You seem blissfully unaware of why the US and Russia are fighting it out over miniscule Georgia and even more miniscule Armenia.  Is it because they love Armenians and Georgians so much?   No, it’s because those countries are very important to both America and the Russian Federation. 

    Why is Hillary Clinton calling up Serge and imploring him to get the protocols ratified?  Why does little Armenia deserve so much attention?   Ask yourself that.

    Let me tell you something about a lot of Hayastansis: far from being more objective about politics than Diasporans, they are much less sophisticated because they have had a lot less experience with both domestic and foreign policy.

    This is a legacy of the Soviet-era where Armenia had essentially no civic involvement and no foreign policy.  Your public relations efforts are pitiful too, and I am not the only Diasporan to point that out. 

    I see this inferiority complex all the time when Armenian students come here to the US to get brainwashed by State Department-oriented professors in American grad schools in areas such as international relations and political science.  You think your professors are terrific.  You look up to them even as they spit on Armenians.  You need some radical education and empowerment, not US State Department propaganda.  

    You have a wonderful resource in the Diaspora. Most countries would feel very fortunate to have a Diaspora like the Armenian one, but unfortunately the leaders of Armenia see the Diaspora as simply a cash cow.  That is how short-sighted Armenia is.

    Serge sucks up to the US and the Neo-cons – Jews – by writing articles in the pro-Turkish, anti-Armenian, pro-Israel Wall Street Journal.  Who advised him to write those suck up articles?  The same people that are telling Armenia that it must sign the protocols?  I think you, Sergio, and many of your compatriots are the ones who need to be objective about politics.  No one says Armenia is not in a tough position.  But giving up is not an option.

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