KeghartInterviewed by Hamo Moskofian, Paris, 31 August 2010
“It is time to think of constructing new Arks like that of the Noah’s or live in Armenia, or similar high mountainous regions.”
Hamo Moskofian: Three decades have elapsed since the historic 1979 World Armenian Congress in Paris to your July 2010 visit to the City of Lights. As a vice-governor of the Central Bank of Lebanon from 1985 to 1990, in addition to 51 years as banking executive serving in multinational banks, as well as an intellectual, university professor, author, economist and patriot, what are your thoughts and feelings about the rolling away of your active life?
Interviewed by Hamo Moskofian, Paris, 31 August 2010
“It is time to think of constructing new Arks like that of the Noah’s or live in Armenia, or similar high mountainous regions.”
Hamo Moskofian: Three decades have elapsed since the historic 1979 World Armenian Congress in Paris to your July 2010 visit to the City of Lights. As a vice-governor of the Central Bank of Lebanon from 1985 to 1990, in addition to 51 years as banking executive serving in multinational banks, as well as an intellectual, university professor, author, economist and patriot, what are your thoughts and feelings about the rolling away of your active life?Meguerditch H. Bouldoukian: I hardly feel the passing of time. It is like yesterday. Since that historic Armenian Congress, Armenians have established a free and independent republic. I feel gratified. We owe the success of the Congress to the efforts of Rev. James Karnuzian from Gstaad; Eduard Jakhian from Brussels; les anciens combattants de France, headed by Kevork Bakerjian of UFAFU (Union Française des Arméniens de Formation Universitaire), Paris; Prof. Vahakn Dadrian from the United States; Gayzag Palandjian from Spain; père Andranik Granian and Kevork Ajemian from Lebanon; myself and 330 compatriots from 23 countries.
After helping organize the Congress, my banking career forced me to return to Lebanon in 1981. I was appointed the following year as deputy-governor of the Central Bank of Lebanon for five years.
This new central banking function opened new horizons in my life. I visited several banks in Europe meeting with the governors and senior officials for consultation and advice in implementing monetary policy for Banque du Liban. I thought these European central banks had the experience of crisis management due to the Second World War. Their contribution was very useful.
Following my tenure at Banque du Liban, in 1991 I was invited by the leaders of the Republic of Armenia for consultation in finance, banking and central banking under the new market economy.
From 1992 to 1993 I served as central banking consultant in Brussels to the external affairs of the European Community, (TACIS program) and I visited several of the CIS countries. These two years were a live university for me.
When my EC contract came to an end, I served a London-based bank, the UBAF Bank, as their representative in the Middle East. It was a new opportunity for me to be specialized in correspondent banking and trade finance. I have continued on that job to the present day. Parallel to my banking career, I was invited to teach finance and banking in five universities in Lebanon.
Meanwhile, I have participated in international conferences on economic relations, banking systems, restructuring, public debt and budgeting, and the Barcelona Agreement this year. Details of the itinerary of this part of my life may be viewed on my new website www.migdrij.com . One of the most important conferences where I made a presentation was in Rome in 2006. I spoke about the Euromed Barcelona Agreement 2010. I said that it was impossible to target 2010, even 2015 to realise the objectives of the agreement.
H.M.: How do you see the current situation in Armenia and in Diaspora, after the independence, the creation of the Republic of Nagorno-Karabagh, and the fall of the Iron Curtain?
M.B.: The Iron Curtain was a black label given by Winston Churchill to the frontiers of communist states. I wished he hadn’t. Because of this Curtain, for seventy years, we in the West did not see the lamentable life of millions of nations within the communist states. Regarding to the independent Republic of Armenia, Nagorno-Karabagh and Diaspora Armenians, twenty years have passed since independence. The osmosis of the interaction into one nationhood of millions of dispersed Armenians has been slow. I expect that with the information technology, this will change into a faster interaction of attitudes and mentality, a better understanding of each other’s problems, respect to positions and national interest, sounder behavior, unified struggle for human rights, justice and recovery of occupied Armenian regions and properties and compensation through international courts. This will take time. After all, the Republic of Turkey is a neighboring state of the Republic of Armenia. One day, both nations will come to terms. Stubbornness plus negation does not lead to positive results.
I’ve met many Armenians in Yerevan. There are the intellectuals, artists, academicians and there are the tough fighters for just causes, as well as, the unyielding category of brave soldiers. They have many opportunities and challenges. The economy is in transformation and growing in spite of the blockade by Turkey. The new generation can face all kinds of risks and uncertainty. They seem self-confident, hardworking–an Armenian national characteristic–and with entrepreneurial spirit. The Diaspora must invest more.
As to Artsakh, independence is their legal right, and they are part of the osmosis. Kosovo’s case is the same as Nagorno-Karabagh’s. The recent declaration of Turkish foreign minister Davutoglu in Baku as a condition for normalizing relations between Ankara and Yerevan is just a diplomatic utterance. Armenians also can put conditions, starting with the recognition of the Wilsonian frontiers.
H.M.: How do you analyze the situation in Turkey and in the Turkish Diaspora, concerning the rise of convert Armenians and other minorities, after years of oppression and silence?
M.B.: My specialty is economics and finance. I wish you asked me about the banking system in Turkey, Turkish banks and their origins, the banking crisis of 2001 or the Turkish economic progress since the ’70s, the KOT gap, or the Turkish holding companies… as they are part of my job.
It appears that to gain international credibility, the authorities in Turkey want to manage the situation of the minorities in a different style than the previous regimes. Turks are very sensitive to foreign intervention on behalf of their minorities, although they have signed many international agreements in this connection since the 19th century. It appears they do not realize that the world has changed in the past 100 years. On the other hand, tell me where on this planet are there no oppressed people? Where on this planet are there no genocides? Where on this planet is their justice? Why are there regional wars everywhere?
One major reason for wars is that there are the haves and have-nots–individuals or nations. Another factor is that there are two kinds of human beings: those who work and produce and those who live on the people who produce. It is the jungle world. You have the bees and ants, which work day and night; you have the mosquitoes and leeches which suck the blood of others. It is easier to live on other people’s belongings.
Before the Second World War who were the wealthy in Germany? Germans of Jewish descent. You had the Holocaust. Who were the wealthy citizens in the Ottoman Empire before its downfall? The minorities: Armenians, Greeks, and Jews. You had the Genocide.
Oil was first found by Alexander Mantashoff, a Baku Armenian, followed by Kalouste Gulbenkian, Alex’s student. Which nations had an eye on this vital product other than the colonial powers–England and France? The Germans were kept out of the game. One of the reasons for the First World War was the oil of Mosul, still an Ottoman territory before the war. The Berlin-Baghdad Railway was not to transport German pilgrims to Najaf, Karbala, Mecca or Jerusalem. Do not forget Lord Curzon’s famous statement in 1923: "Oil weighed heavier than the blood of the Armenians."
During the Second World War if the Germans had won at Stalingrad, their next plan was the invasion of Caucasus…for Baku and Mosul oil, and it would have been the destruction of the Armenian SSR. Ottomans and the Turks miscalculated twice, during the two world wars. They will still make wrong calculations in the future with the same mentality.
You speak about the convert Armenians of Turkey. For the Turkish authorities these converts do not seem to be a priority, although the Hamshens and the Zazas have given many state officials and ministers in Turkey and still do. The new administration seems to have other priorities: the rising Kurdistan in Iraq (oil in Mosul, Kirkuk and the Kurdish expansion); the existence of the Kurdish population in Iran, Syria and Turkey; the entry to the European Union; new markets for the Turkish economic agents (producers, contractors and manufacturers) in Arab and Islamic countries, in African countries, such as Ethiopia, where even a benevolent Turkish organization for the poor, called KIMSA YOKMU (Solidarity and Aid Association) operates in Addis Ababa or a secondary school in Sana’a, Yemen. Of course, there is also the reconciliation with the state of Israel, and some kind of an alliance with Iran and Syria.
H.M.: As an internationally-known author of a series of books on finance and banking, which readers are you targeting?
M.B.: The financial sector (executives in banking institutions mainly), the international traders and the business sector, university students preparing their MBAs and the public at large.
H.M.: Did the crisis of 2008 negatively affect the Lebanese banking system?
M.B.: On the contrary, Lebanese banks attracted billions of dollars in the form of investments and deposits as a safe haven for money. This phenomenon is still continuing.
H.M.: What are your future projects.
M.B.: My plans at the age of 74? Every morning I wake up and pray God for enabled me to survive, in spite of the wars I have seen, since 1937 and the risky banking life. In 1973 I was held hostage at the Bank of America in Beirut; in 1987 my office at Banque du Liban was hit by several rockets; in 2008 I was knocked down by a car in one of the busy streets of Yerevan. I had been in Armenia 36 times before that accident.
2009 was a year of anniversaries for me, of which the two most important ones were: Fifty years of international banking career. Fifty years ago, in July 1959, I came to Paris for the first time, to meet my uncle Dikran Roupen Bouldoukian, an entrepreneur and engineer. I know the city of Paris street by street, including all the metro grid.
Every morning I go to my banking job. One’s work is one’s best partner in life. You take care of it, it takes care of you, and keeps you away from illness, such as Alzheimer, Parkinson and other unknown illnesses. Work keeps you young. I wonder why the citizens of France — I expect not all — are against the French government’s law to extend the retirement age. Happiness is in working not in vacationing or in early retirement.
I am working on three new books. The first is “Bottleneck in the Dark Tunnel”, my experiences in 1992-1993 in the transformation of the communist states from directed economy to market economy, the challenges, the difficulties, darkness, ignorance, uncertainty about the future and the decadence of human values. The second book is called “Moments”. It includes short stories about critical moments which have been decisive in my life. I plan to write a third book entitled “De cons, de fons et de patrons”, inspired by two famous writers: Bernard Zimmern’s “Les profiteurs de l’État”and Aram J. Kevorkian’s “Confessions of a Francophile”. I hope to realise these three books in the coming years.
Now as I look back to my life, it is like "Hier encore” of Aznavour. L’avenir? As Victor Hugo says,“l’avenir n’est à personne! Sire! l’avenir est à Dieu! A chaque fois que l’heure sonne, Tout ici-bas nous dit adieu.”
Finally, I intend to do whatever I can to raise “human values” in societies we live in. Every individual, in any society, is the brick of the nation. If these bricks do not function properly, if they are not made of good material (health, education, moral and spiritual values) and they are not well cemented, our modern society will be driven more and more into all kinds of extremism, causing its disappearance, in spite of all the scientific and technological advancements. There will be no more stability and peace on earth. It will be a wild forest with all its consequences at a time when climatic conditions are causing havoc in many parts of the globe: torrential rains causing floods, forest fires, tsunamis and tornados, earthquakes…
If these natural disasters continue, they will signal the start of a new super-deluge. Many parts of the globe will go under water, not only Venice, in 200 to 300 years. It is time to think of constructing new arks like that of the Noah’s or live in Armenia, or similar high mountainous regions.
Keghart
Keghart
Keghart
17 comments
Mr. Bouldoukian, I would like
Mr. Bouldoukian, I would like your ideas and suggestions about the following please:
Greetings Vartkes, Thank you
Greetings Vartkes,
Nos. 1and 3-
Armenia is a landlocked economy in addition to the blockades. The RA does not have a direct access to any sea landscape. The factor of transportation is an important factor for exporting bulk and heavy material or other produce, although air transport can be an option.
This makes the RA to look for economic models that would best apply to its economic performance and circumstances. In my opinion, the Swiss model is the most suitable for the RA. There are other models too. All the other countries have access to waters.
Being part of the CIS and having former relations, mentality and culture with these republics, I consider them normal and priority markets for the economic productions of the RA.
Industrialisation in the long run depends on markets; review the Japanese, the Chinese and the South East Asian economies. the RA will not be an exception.
Industries that will best fit to promote in the RA today are:
Construction (Housing, building materials, equipment, paint…)
Services (Banking, Insurance, Tourism/Hospitality, IT/Software, Telecom and Hightech)
Industries related to precision instruments and electronics
Industries related to Metals and Mining
Industries related to Agro-business, mineral water and chemicals)
Industries related to electric power generation
Film Industry, actors, singers, music, painters, Jewelry(Gold and Diamond)
Pharmaceutical, medically related industries and cosmetics
International Contracting and consulting offices.The list can be longer Vartkes.
All these industries will provide ample employment opportunities; International and local trade
provide lesser employment chances but they are necessary.
No.2
The above cited industrial productions need equity capital and bank financing or foreign investments.
Banks look for opportunities for financing with a relative risk. they are not benevolent institutions.
Most important of all is the banking system of the RA, that will promote the venue of commercial banks
from overseas. That is the job of the central bank.
On the other hand, there are other sources of private finance, such as the IFC, EBRD, FDI, Venture Capital or the Diaspora(Armenians or friends of Armenians). At this stage, that is, 20 years after the RA was established, we need capital formation. The one existing under the Soviet Union was destroyed.
Capital formation depends on time and efficiency to make it simple.
Oligarchs have existed in all countries where capitalism or market economy was introduced. Look at the USA, the big trusts and families of the 19th century as well as Japan’s Zaibatsus and Armenia is not an exception with the adoption of the new model of market economy.
No.4
I already hinted to this question in No.2
The diaspora must invest; it should be treated as any foreign investor. Their investments must not be considered as donations. Investment is something and donation is something else.
Well, if you have any other questions, please feel free to come back. There are many other things that can be recommended for flourishing the economy of the RA. That will be later.
Thank you!
Thank you for the quick reply Mr. Bouldoukian.
Businesses should join forces and make significant changes in the Armenian economy without interfering in the politics. By the same token politics should not interfere with the businesses. On the contrary, it should provide incentives to succeed.
Is that too much to ask?? I don’t think so.
Government interference in business and the economy
Greetings,
Mnam harkanok,
Meguerditch
Harkeli Baron Bouldoukian
Harkeli Baron Bouldoukian,
Mnam harkanok
Zohrab
Armenia today
Dear Friends,
Certainly, developing businesses may help open jobs and retain people inside Armenia, but thus far there does not seem to be any reversal in this trend. Rather than hoping to involve more international banks or financial institutions whose debts have strangled more than one economy in the world, leaving their populations impoverished, I would hope that there is more attention given to the educational system and the social protection of the most disadvantaged.
Not everything was bad in the Soviet period and the level of our schools (where I myself studied) was at the top on the international level. The country still runs thanks to the ‘old school’ and people with a good level of basic and higher education. What do you have of this today? A system in shambles and a government that could care less about any social or educational programs. I do not see any replacement of this educated class in 20-30 years. Despite these difficulties, I do think that our most urgent problem today is the loss of population and we should encourage a movement of people to settle in Armenia. Are diaspora Armenians ready to do this? If not, all the good-will will lead to nothing.
I agree with you Zara
As for the example of the Jews and Israel, I won’t agree that "a small country can flourish…" I will reply to Mesrob separately regarding his comment.
Bouldoukian interview
A second and a related query: Considering its geographic-geologic-diplomatic-natural resource limitations/circumstances, in what industries should Armenia focus its resources? That is, areas where we can excel and improve Armenia’s economy.
My apologies for using Israel as an example, since they receive incredible support from America and Diaspora Jews, but that country, despite its small size, little population, frugal resources, has become a giant in pharmaceuticals and other science-related industries.
Greetings Mesrob, I do not
Greetings Mesrob,
One factor of any educational system and its institutions in any country is to provide with the workforce and labour to its economy, in addition to agents to political, military and social life.. I think there should be a close collaboration and coordination at the republic’s higher strata in adopting educational systems that would best fit to economic performers in the RA otherwise there will be distortions in the general employment set up and you will have unemployment and emigration.
For your other question, please read the text I mailed to vartkes.
Bouldoukian interview
Dear Mr. Bouldoukian,
Thank you for your prompt response. And thanks for your detailed reply to Vartkes.
A small country, but…
When a sizable number of people in the government (senate, congress, advisors, etc.) are Jewish and all the financial institutions and media are the same…then the country ceases to be independent and ‘belongs’ to the controlling party; in this case "Israel owns USA" as mentioned by several Israeli leaders.
I don’t have anything against it; As they say it’s "survival of the fittest". Jews, being few, like Armenians, have found the ideal way to survive in this harsh ‘human’ world. They are Ճարպիկ.
We should do the same! We should explore the means to control another superpower so we can protect our nation and live amongst the barbaric criminals that we have as neighbours; otherwise we have limited time in history…
Replies to Vartkes and Mesrob
Thank you for your questions. I shall reply to you tomorrow, as its sleeping time for me in Beirut city. Its 11.33 p.m. Sur you will have a reply.
Kind regards,
M.Bouldoukian
Interview with Mr. Bouldoukian
However, in one instance I was perplexed by his simplilstic and misleading reason for the Genocide of Armenians. Mr. Bouldoukian says that Jews were killed in Germany because of their wealth. He then cites the same reason for the Genocide of Armenians and the killing of Greeks in Ottoman Turkey. The Ottoman state committed genocide against Armenians because Turkish leaders wanted to create an ethnically-homogenous nation; because Armenians are Christian; and because Armenians were progressive, and generally wealthier than the average Turk.
Response to Vrej’s comment.
Dear Vrej,
If you read MOURJ Monthly Magazine of 1905,yea, yea, Nov/Dec. 1905, printed in Tiflis, pages 188-206, you will find out many other reasons for the future genocide. The rising Armenian rich bourgeoisie in Caucassus in the 19th century had boiled the envy of the Ottoman feodal lords who owned only the land. One such Armenian bougeois was Alexander Mantashof of Baku, with whose donation Armenians in Paris today have their Hovhannes-Meguerditch church.
**definition of envy, as per MerriamWebster’s 10th edition Collegiate Dictionary: I quote
"painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another, joined with a desire to possess the same advantage." If he can, it’s my quote.
Sirov,
Meguerditch
To Vartkes, Nerces, Zohrab, Zara , Shahe and M. Bouldoukian
With all due respect to all of you and your posts here, plus indeed my old friend Meguerditch Bouldukian, I have this to add, to each of your wishes/desires.For what you actually profess is no other than criticizing, and/or just that wishes.
In a non chronological order, haphazardly, my humble input, as I did 8 long years ago, when participating at the Armenia-Diaspora Conference (Pre Conference Section of the Armeniadiaspora.com wherein my "paper" plus 6 others, including that of dear Meguerditch Bouldoukian´s was placed on Foreign Ministry´s web page and kept for 4.5years.
What I advocated was Down to Earth plain method of creation of a "National Investment Trust Fund", nucleus of which to be established by our 6/7 magnates, with each investing in the working capital of same , say 3/400 million dollars. Then after the billionaires’ input would be followed by our more than a hundred millionaires, down to one hundred thousand dollar investments, further down to a thousand dollar ones. Just sit back ,relax and take a pen and paper or calculating machine and count….
Those that would really count would be the 100,000′ strong "Professional Colleagues Associations" members…With fund in Geneva and governed by the magnates´ experts.
Loans to be given through RA/Artsakh banks at 2/3percent per annum to small, medium size entrepreneurs and farmers.
Forget about the Grandiose ACBA Bank HSBC bank and others who loan out at 14%…how can the farmer buy what he needs to farm with such high interest bearing loans….
Let the Gov. continue with grants, Loans from Finland, Holland Belgium U.S. France, Germany, Canada and channel these through their system— That is governmental/ state business, which so far has not eased up our farmers’ overall situation nor the small entrepreneurs’.
What is more, my "Projections on a New Statute for the Armenian Diaspora"…intends/suggests a planned Repatriation, as first major goal, once the Fund is there..
Deposit of One Million Armenians
Harkeli Zohrab,
This action of buying Armenian Drams, daily, over say 100 days or more, brings to the bankibg system of Armenia millions of dollars to be deposited in banks.
P.S. Sorry if I am late in my reply as I was in Baghdad last week, visiting Iraqi banks.
Both Curzon and I have
Both Curzon and I have discussed the alegeld genocide here numerous times before. Search the archives as I don't feel like going at it again here. Simply put, attacking people who aid an invading enemy is not genocide. There was no aim to eliminate Armenians as was the case w/ jews in WW2.
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